KERRY ON STUFF: Interview with the Washington Blade

In John Kerry’s first published interview with the gay press since winning the Democratic presidential nominee, the Massachusetts senator defended his support for state constitutional amendments that ban gay marriage and said he wasn't sure whether he would have lived a double life as a politician if he had been gay.

The Sept. 9 interview, which was granted with significant restrictions (see sidebar), also covered his long history of support for gay rights and his commitment to push for workplace protection and hate crimes laws as the most achievable gay rights issues should he be elected.

The Democratic nominee also intimated for the first time that he agreed with the portion of the Defense of Marriage Act, passed by Congress in 1996 and signed by President Clinton, that permits one state to refuse to recognize marriage licenses issued to gay couples by another state. Kerry said in the interview that he opposed DOMA as "gay bashing" because the Constitution already permits states such authority, an interpretation of the "Full Faith & Credit Clause" that is the subject of heated debate among scholars and advocates. ...

Blade: -- including DOMA and the Federal Marriage Amendment. You voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, and you've spoken out against the Federal Marriage Amendment. In both cases you described it as "gay bashing for political gain."

Many of us feel that the constitutional amendments to ban same-sex marriage in Massachusetts and Missouri also constitute gay bashing for political gain. I'm curious why you haven’t spoken out against those two?

Kerry: Well, I think there's a distinction. I don't think that's gay bashing. It's obviously a position that people in the GLBT community disagree with--I understand that. But I think that, historically, the definition of marriage and the application of marriage laws has always been state defined. It is up to the states, not the federal government.

That’s why I viewed the federal efforts, as specifically targeted, as gay bashing, because they were usurping into a territory that they didn't belong. There was no need to do that. Under the constitution, no state has to recognize another state’s decision, and it's up to the states. ...

To me, the focus right now ought to be on the application of the equal protection clause--ought to be gaining the foothold of employment non-discrimination, gaining the foothold of hate crimes legislation, making sure that we're protecting people’s ability to share the same rights--partnership rights, tax code treatment rights, ownership rights, Social Security--those rights are what are important to me.

That's what's governed more by the state and it becomes less of conflict between… religion and the state, if you will.

Blade: You have supported the idea of providing federal benefits through civil unions.

Kerry: Yes.

Blade: How would you go about making that happen, as president?

Kerry: You have to fight for it. You have to introduce it.

Blade: You would introduce legislation to make that happen?

Kerry: That's equal protection under the law.

Blade: I know you supported the Massachusetts amendment and it does provide for an alternative of civil unions.

Kerry: Correct.

Blade: But the Missouri initiative which just recently passed, and a number of those that are coming up this November--like Michigan, Ohio and others--are written such that they would eliminate even recognition or security through civil unions.

Kerry: Right.

Blade: I think in Missouri, you said after that vote that--

Kerry: I did. And I was not aware. I was unbriefed, and I thought it was the same amendment we had in Massachusetts. And that's very simple.
I just thought it was a simple prohibition and not one that excluded civil unions. Obviously, it'd be inconsistent.

I am for civil unions and therefore I would not have voted for that had I been there. … I just didn’t know it went as far as it did and, obviously, I don't support it. ...

Blade: Speaking of constitutional rights, many of us see this issue--and I hate to keep hammering on gay marriage, but it is the one we feel most under siege about right now--the Constitution guarantees equal protection, but we see poll after poll saying most Americans--the latest said 60 percent--are opposed to letting gays have any kind of legal security or responsibility or benefits through marriage.

As president, how would you reconcile those two different places?

Kerry: Well, the presidency is the power of bully pulpit to some degree, and you have to talk reasonably to people. Look, you have to begin at a beginning.
It took us a long time to pass the [1964] Civil Rights [Act]. There was a huge filibuster against it. Nowadays, people couldn't conceive of why did we fight about that.

It took us a long time for women to get the right to vote in America. You have to fight for things.

And you pick a starting point, and my starting point is to try to pass ENDA and try to pass hate crimes [legislation]. And you begin to educate people, and hopefully you change the climate and tone--it's been very exploitive in the last year or so. And you lead.

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